Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Beyond Dimensions. My name's Adam Sutcliffe, I am the CPO of Immutry. Today I am lucky enough to be speaking to Alexandra Powell, who is not only an architect, but co-founder of Powell Property Group and the managing director of Powell DC, as well as being a part-time lecturer at Staffordshire University.
So, hi Alexandra, thank you very much for your time today. Hi, Adam. It's an absolute pleasure. I'm really excited for this conversation. So am I, because when I was speaking to you about Powell DC and the fact that you produce two key solutions for homeowners looking to build and extend and renovate their dream homes.
One of the things that you dropped into the conversation, which really blew my mind, was the fact that 3D is a must-have for your process. It's not nice to have you insist on it being used. And so I'm really keen for you to talk about why that is the case and what you use it for.
Yes. So for us, it's a no brainer that 3D visualization, 3D modeling is an essential and non-negotiable part of our workflow. And initially, this is an internal process. I think as an architect it's far better to get a grasp and develop a design in 3D so you're seeing it in every environment, in every light, from every angle, and you can zoom in on every single detail.
And our principle is that we always design from the inside out, so form follows function. So it's really important that no matter how the client wants the building to look from the outside, or even what their brief is, we start from the inside. So we really get to understand their lifestyle, who they are, and who they're going to be in the future.
Are their children going to grow up and leave home? Are they going to have older parents moving in with them? Are they going to get older themselves and have changing needs? So we're thinking with the end in mind. And from that point of view, we start designing from the inside out. And more often than not, we end up not giving them what they think they want.
So they might not get a loft conversion. They might not get an extension because if we can reconfigure the internal layout effectively, create lots of built-in storage, maybe built-in furniture, clever solutions to use every inch of the space, then maybe we won't need an extension at all. And as a construction company, this can kind of do us out of a job sometimes, but for me, it's important that the client gets what they want.
And then externally, as far as the client's concerned, we're always on the same page, even when the contractor comes on board, whether it's us or someone else, everyone's going to be on the same page and they're not going to misinterpret the design that we intend. So how does that, from a practical perspective, how does that work?
So, you design in Revit, or your architects design in Revit, and then how do you get from a Revit file to something that you can show and essentially co-create with your clients? Yes. So obviously after a full measured survey, which we tend to do in-house unless it's a very complex building. And we like to get to know the building really well to experience it in different lights.
And so we'll build the Revit model as existing and then we'll create the proposal. And we usually start with three options. So we don't tend to show the clients 3Ds from the beginning because they get carried away with how it looks rather than focusing on plans. So we always start with floor plans.
Directly from Revit using our templates and then as we develop the design and we maybe narrow down three options down to one which combines all the elements that the client likes we'll then start showing them 3ds which are exported from Revit into SketchUp and then we use Enscape. So we've tried Twinmotion and Revit and for us, Enscape works really well.
We find that people can pick it up. So even our apprentice, who's a second year architecture student, picked up Enscape really quickly. So yeah, we get a good result, whether we're doing a video walkthrough or stills and they have a really professional finish. I was going to ask what you did next, whether you presented it in its true 3D form, sort of like gaming engine style, where you got someone navigating around or whether you then use the 3D into sort of 2D renders. Is there, in terms of what it is you want to achieve, which is them understanding and buying into what into the direction, is one format of realization better than another sort of achieving that, do you find?
We rely on a combination every single time. So 2D plans, you can't beat them for understanding a layout, but a lot of people struggle to interpret or visualize 2D plans. So we combine that with 3D images and then the video walkthrough, which normally comes in a slightly more advanced stage. Cause again, we don't want people to get carried away with the plants and the artwork and the carpets. We want them to really focus on the space, which is easier done in the 2D images. So we kind of layer on the design process. We also start with interior design as an integral part of what we do. So we offer a full interior design service as an additional package, but as an absolute standard, we do a basic interior design.
We do mood boards because again, you can't convey the character and the mood of a space without really thinking about the finished product, and how people are actually going to live in there, and how it's going to make them feel, how the spaces connect to each other. And I think it's important for a house to have a character, because otherwise you fall into the trap of building this beautiful extension, for example, and then the clients don't know how to dress it, how to make it feel like a home, so it ends up being a bit of a shell.
So I've got two questions that come out of that. So one is, have you ever tried VR on a client? So not a full VR set. I've tried it myself and I do find it a bit disorienting sometimes. But what we do instead is through Enscape, we generate a QR code on every single presentation. So the clients can photograph the QR code with a mobile phone and move around the space either a different space that they're in or the house itself and actually see a 360 view of exactly how that space looks and it's quite realistic without necessarily wearing, needing certain glasses or having any tech gear and as I told you last time the renderings look so realistic that when I showed my the interior of a pool house that we did recently.
He shook the phone to see if the water was going to splash out the pool. So we're not quite at that point yet, but it does feel quite immersive. And it also gets the clients quite excited. This is a huge investment that they're making. Whether it's in a renovation extension or even more a new built home, which we do sometimes.
So getting them to really buy into the idea and get excited. So even when we're at that messy stage of digging foundations or uncovering something on site that costs extra money, they can see themselves through the process because they can really visualize the end result. That's really interesting.
So you're saying that by giving them access to this 3D, it allows them to buy in far more, because they've because the quality of the experience has been that much more real, that they sort of already feel themselves in it. So therefore, any little humps or even massive humps that come later on, they're more, they're more able to, or more willing to deal with, because they've already bought in, they're already vested into the solution.
That's right. As you know, a picture tells a thousand words, and whether you're a five year old or, you're the, the parent actually commissioning the extension, you can buy into it and understand. So we often interview children. To trying to understand what it is that they want, how they want their bedrooms to look or what's important to them so that the whole family has a house that really belongs to them.
So we will never create a design that's out of the box. We don't obviously copy and paste and every house is unique to that family and it's little touches that we can put in like maybe their names in neon lights behind the headboard. that we know they'll really enjoy that can kind of get the whole family excited about the project.
And from a marketing point of view, it really helps us promote our work to other people. So if we can show a design rather than a floor plan, we're much more likely to get other clients. They then go to work and they show it to their colleagues and their friends and family. And it really becomes a conversation topic.
And so apart from us being able to put it on our social media, the work sort of speaks for itself. That's really interesting. And it just warms my heart because it's I had a conversation with Graham Ross, who is the CEO of Austin Smith Lord and not Lloyd, which I kept saying. And he, you know, one of his things was that.
He felt that going to 3D sooner basically increased your chances, or your opportunity, rather, to be more empathetic, to understand more, because you're able to engage far more senses, and by democratizing it, far more people in terms of stakeholders, etc. And it just sounds like that's exactly what you just experienced.
And when it comes to stakeholders, it's not just the clients and their families. It's also the planners. So in my experience, we're far more likely to get planning permission if we can show the planning department 3D renders if we can show the new building in context. And trying to get them on board and really kind of excited about what we're trying to do.
And especially when it comes to quality design. So even if we're doing something that's slightly different to the rest of the street, hopefully they can, they can really see the benefits. So even though 3D is not a requirement for a planning application, we think it's really helpful. How do you imagine your use of 3D evolving?
Because I, because I think for me, you're already pretty advanced. From the conversations I've had, a lot of people just stay in 2D unless they're doing it for renders for marketing, they're pretty much in 2D uh, and maybe forced, reluctantly into 3D. So I think you're really advanced from that aspect.
How do you see PAL DC's use of 3D evolving? So I'd like to integrate more technology, and I'd love to try out your platform and see how AI can really help us because it can be quite time-consuming. Populating a model, finding the right textures, finding the right furniture. And for us having apprentices really helps with that because we're developing their own skills and talent and their eye for detail, but also it's a more cost-effective way.
Because if you've got a senior architect, you're better off using them on technical design and more. rather than making a model look kind of pretty and homely. So as important as it is, I completely understand where other practices are coming from when they say it's too expensive. But if you integrate it as the foundation of how you work, you're not going from 2D to 3D and then back to 2D.
You're just doing everything in 3D from scratch. So soon you'll have a change, obviously the benefit of using Revit. is you don't have to change the floor plan, the section, and the elevation, it all gets changed in one instance. So even though the initial investment is relatively high to switch from AutoCAD to Revit, for example, it's a really worthwhile investment to make.
Well, yeah, I mean, the good thing about a Mootree, you've got to plug a Mootree at some point is that we're able to take pretty much any file. So whether it is AutoCAD, whether it is Revit, and take that and on the fly, if you, you know, if you haven't put any materials in, it'll go, is this a wall?
Right. We need wall type materials. This is a window, window type materials. And also, yeah, swap out. If you haven't got models for chairs, we've got a pretty extensive library where we can just drop those chairs in or drop those plants in, or build your terrain around the building to set it.
So our stated aim is the democratization of 3D is to make it, as you said, as easy to access as possible. So that there's no, you don't need any skills. You don't need any new software, but also you can just use your live design data in whatever format that is. And, and have something that is inherently usable in whatever way that usability is. So, you know, again, I really like the QR code because it's one of the things that we're looking at with another client is the ability to give them a QR code so they can send it to their clients to immediately. So the sales piece continues all the time.
You don't have to be in a meeting, my architects meeting to, to, to see what's being proposed. You can, you can, it's dynamic. Um, what do you think, why do you think you haven't really answered this to a degree, but I'm alright in saying that you think that the reason that other practices don't do it is that they're just not bold enough or they just see there's too many barriers.
Why do you think people aren't as dynamic and as forward-thinking as Powell DC? I think the skill development is a barrier to entry in a way. In the practice I used to work for in the past, we used Revit, but then we paid an external company to do all the renders, and they cost hundreds of pounds per image.